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Friday, 27 August 2010

NHS North keep on spending the news?

Whether or not the cutbacks are coming we don't as yet know for certain. If they are then it will be very interesting to find out just which parts of the NHS are going to be slaughtered. Duffy (Sheila) is screaming in Scotland lest they cut 'most important' funding for smoke cessation programmes-not that she'll lose a penny of her luxurious wages if they do, well you paid for the most part of it!

Arnott is in similar position in England and similarly waged, but why she still has a 'job' after the complete exposure of her 'con job' concerning the Tobacco display Ban I do not know!

Step forward NHS North for the latest salvo against smokers.

Of course, the latest weapon "it's for childrens sake" is being touted far and wide but what about the cost in these cash strapped times?

NHS North have now started their assault on 'illegal' tobacco. Now you may ask, considering tobacco is a legal commodity "what the hell is illegal about it then?"

One of the pictures presented is of a user of 'abroad facility' and the question is "Why is she going abroad again?"

Because she want's to sell your body to the child sex slave industry, they need non smoking childred for sex!
Well, she might have a French lover, could be a Belgian pimp or possibly she has an interest in a bar in the Netherlands-who knows? The picture & caption lead you to believe that she is going abroad solely to bring back tobacco products. Why?, because that's what they want you to believe.

So what if she does go abroad 4 times per year, it has nothing to do with NHS North, Sheila Duffy, our Debs or the bloody milkman really. If she brings back'x' pouches of tobacco for her own personal use then that's fine but NHS would have you believe otherwise, they obviously envisage her driving a 40 ton wagon stocked to the gunnels with illegal tobacco.

They say that illegal tobacco is the curse of our country, it's finding it's way to our children but where is the proof of these claims?

They also say that illegal tobacco is, Quote:- Cheaper prices-less than £3.50 per pack of 20.

Aha! now we are getting to the nub of the matter. They want all toabacco bought and paid for in this country so that the tobacco tax can be collected to fund the NHS, ASH CRUK et al. Of course, tobacco from abroad doesn't quite cost the same as here does it! Now I see the problem.

Now this is quite amusing for our friend "Johnny Rebel" ( Facebook) has advocated exactly the opposite course of action. He wants us to buy our fags & tobacco abroad for the simple reason that they are using our tobacco tax against us!

Now, as a quiet, moderate, law abiding sorta fella I can see what NHS North are getting excited about but I cannot see for the life of me how they expect 25% of the population to fund causes aimed directly against them-the logic defies me!

Oh, of course..."...the children". But it's illegal to smoke under age isn't it, and to sell tobacco products to them? So what is wrong with present legislation that prohibits this?

In a FAQA's section, they ask where 'illegal' tobacco is being sold? Happily, I can answer that one for them - Nationwide!

Nobody in their right mind is going to give Mr Mahmoud £12.36 for a 50gm pack when 'billy' at No 46 is knocking it out at £6.50 cash - that's cheaper than the amount of revenue the government steal off each 50gm pack!

The point of this is to show, yet again, how the anti smoking brigade waste our money so frivolously. Have a look through the site and see what you think-oh, and ignore the YOU-GOV survey, the questions are so lopsided I'm amazed they didn't fall over!

Hat Tip to the Visigoth from the Freedom2Choose Forum.

See yet again how smokers are portrayed as peodophiles


Baz said...

I'm not taking the piss here.. I genuinely don't know.. so can someone tell me..

a. how much does it cost to get abroad, total travel costs, not just ferry/flight to the cost cutters and back

b. how much are you legally allowed to bring back with you? I mean can you fill up you car boot with fags and then come home?

I ask because I really have no idea as it's something I've never done.. I've never done a booze cruise either - so have no clue on that one. I'm just trying to figure out how much money is actually being saved by going abroad for fags. I'm sure someone must have sat and worked out.

You say here 50p for a pack of 20, is that including all the flight/ferry?

TheBigYin said...

Fuck, you were quick baz, dont know, I don't go abroad, don't have a bloody pasport, that's soon remedied, will let your detractors who do have a passport put you to rights.

I've put in an application for a pasport, see how it pans out?

B7 said...

NHS North should be prosecuted for this association and all their anti smoking funding should be removed immediately.

Message to NHS North please go away and throw your controlling North Korean instruction manual in the local canal.

Leg-iron said...

Baz - the expert on importing baccy is here.

As far as I can tell, there's no limit under EU rules as long as it's for your own use.

Bringing it in and selling it on is illegal. Even then, it's not the tobacco that's illegal, it's the selling.

Because that income with no income tax. It would apply just the same if you imported cheap TVs and sold them from the back of a van.

At no point is the tobacco itself illegal. Only selling it for profit without telling the taxman is illegal.

The whole 'illegal tobacco' mantra is a lie intended to scare us into paying full price and funding our own tormentors.

It's not going to work.

handymanphil said...

Smokefree North West, Fresh Smoke Free North East and Smokefree Yorkshire & the Humber sponser this lot so it's not surprising no matter what the subject is, it's always 'for the children'!

Anonymous said...

Friends, Romans ,countrymen ,smokers,non smokers ,BAZ and any other numpty
who has ears
If any freeborn Briton goes into a
UK shop and purchases 60 pouches of Golden Virginia he will part company with circa £720
If he is a clever chappy he will
pop into a Belgian Shop and pay
(in sterling) £225
Now for the state educated dipsticks amongst you ,this means clever chappy has £495 to get to Belgium
Down south Ramsgate-Ostend
car + 5..............£17.60p PP
Dover -Calais(20 miles fromBelgium)
Car +5................£9.00p PP

Hull to Zeebrugge ,3 day cruise
4x cabin............£51 PP

Glasgow or Edinburgh to Charleroi
Ryanair,,,,,,,,,,,,,,£20 Ret PP

Ryanair .....£16.39p Ret PP

So you see, in the defence of freedom we have to cross the North Sea just as our fathers and grandfathers did in the last century but this time it is not the
HUNS we have to worry about.
Its the backstabbing ,cowardly,
two bit,nannies and health freaks
who bring disgrace on our Island Nation.

BTW Anyone struggling to subtract the fares from £495 can slip over to
Windows accessories and use the calculator.

A Free Nation

Anonymous said...

Hola ,Amigos
London Stanstead-Cuidad Real(Madrid)

£29.99 RET

Here you are sitting inside for
smoke and jarra and you are buying
the faggos much cheap not like you
are doing in engelland where idiotos they are standing on paths like chimpanzoas patheticos.

Donna Virginios D'Oro

TheBigYin said...

Baz, Rollo, do you both, and your ilk, live in the real world? You worry about kids getting a whiff of tobacco smoke while kids in Lahore, Pakistan are abducted by paedo gansters taking advantage of the floods there?

See Captain Ranties blog about this, and you ssriously think that we readers are going to take your rantings about second hand smoke seriously...fucking think again!

Smoking Hot said...

Ha ha ha ... ( a the top of their page a pic of someone at a market stall selling brand name cigarettes at £120 for 1000. At those prices l'm sure the site is inundated with requests of where these market stalls are!

£120 for 1000 ... yeah right! lol

@Baz ... you live in Hull don't you? P&O Ferries dear boy. :)

Anonymous said...

That's a horrible poster.

The woman's dressed like a film noir tart, more intent on her ill-gotten gains than on the neglected-looking specimen she hasn't seen since deserting it for her umpeenth smuggling trip. She probably goes with a bloke called Pinky.

As a mother who smoked around all her children, I'm trying hard to be offended but the whole thing is so laughably over the top I can't really be arsed.

Baz said...

TBY.. please correct yourself. I haven't ranted about SHS! nor have I said anything about kids whiffin cigarette smoke? Dunno what you are going on about! Also I am fully aware of the plight of pakistani people because of the floods, I regularly give to charity. Thanks. They are not mutually excluside ideas. I can give to one and still hold an opinion on the other.

Thanks for the links irn-leg, I thought it was really interesting that blog especially the part 5 were he's talking about what to say if you get stopped by customs..

Thanks for the breakdown Anon, yeah I do live in Hull, Smoking Hot. My dad used to do booze cruises in the 80's. I always wondered exactly how profitable stuff like that actually is. Going on those prices I can totally see why someone would go abroad.

Smoking Hot said...

@Baz ... the people l take don't do it because it's profitable, they do it because it saves them a fortune.

The only thing they have to address is the fear and totally unethical tactics used by the UK Stasi aka UKBA.

Leg-iron said...

Baz, you seem to have confused me with a soft drink. Never mind. Confusing people is a sort of hobby of mine anyway.

As Smoking Hot says, we aren't interested in setting up in business, only in not supporting a government that has stated it despises us. We're refusing to pay UK duty because it is used to harass us at every turn. It pays for 'no smoking' signs in non-enclosed bus shelters in the middle of nowhere. It pays for the training of children in street violence and the promulgation of that idea via the internet.

It's bad enough that we are treated as shit. We are not going to pay you to do it. If you want us to save ourselves the trouble and just pay the UK duty, it's simple. Leave us alone. We really don't want anything more.

Smokers are not a different species. We are human just like you. A bit of a shock, perhaps?

We cannot even have one private club for smokers only, run by smokers and staffed by smokers. The reason? A non-smoker might want to visit one day. Even though they don't qualify for membership.

We cannot have a smoking shelter that actually protects from the elements. Nobody uses those but smokers so there can be no claim of danger to anyone else. You would be prosecuted if you kept a pig in those conditions but it's fine for smokers. The reason? You tell me. I'm stumped.

As for opinions, you are entitled to any opinion you like. You can hate smoking until it makes your eyes explode and I will not try to change your opinion. There are things I don't like, but I don't care if other people like them. The things I don't like, I avoid.

Karaoke bar? Sure, have one. I won't go. loud disco that goes on into the early hours? Have fun. I won't be there. You want to keep a cat or dog? Well, you carry on. I won't have either in my house.

It's not difficult. If a place has something I don't like, I don't go there. I don't try to shut the place down or demand that they conform to my personal likes.

So, why is smoking different? Why are there no smoking pubs, no smoking carriages on trains, not even a smoking windswept platform or open bus stop.

Does smoking scare people that much?

I think you'll find it does, and you'll also find that I, for one, am enjoying making it worse.

Did you know that second hand smoke sticks to the fillings in your teeth and turns them acidic, so that over a period of years they destroy bone and make your jaw turn rubbery?

Someone out there knows it now, and he believed it too.

So keep the antismoking coming. I'm having fun with it. Soon, antismokers will drop dead as I pass and you can watch me not care.

Lysistrata said...

This ad is disgusting. Stop using cheeeldren!

Here in Greece, my regular brand of cigs cost £2.42 for a packet of 20. I smoke about 30 a day, so the cost is around £108.75 a month.
In the uk, the (lowest) cost is £5.98 a packet, which would cost me £269.10 a month.
In one month, the saving is £160.35.
Over a year, the saving would be around £1,950.
I regularly return to the uk, for anything up to 2 months.
My suitcase is therefore filled with enough cigarettes for my stay – saving around £320.
(And filled with teabags, clothes, and Indian spices on return...)

Additional points:

Greece is in EU. As is UK. Citizens of EU can buy as much tobacco as they like and take it to other EU countries, provided (a) they have paid the tax duty in the country of purchase and (b) it is for personal use, not for re-sale. (smokers will know this already).

@ all you anti-EU pro-choice smokers – have you considered what would happen if we left the EU? Restricted to bringing only 10 packets back with us!

Greece had already hiked its VAT on cigarettes. I think it’s more expensive than Spain now?

I am a UK citizen, and pay full uk tax – business is registered in UK. But have Greek residency permit. All legal, no tax dodging in either country.

Greece goes non-smoking in all indoor spaces next Wednesday 1st September. Again.

Anonymous said...

If they think smuggled tobacco is a problem ahy create te problem with high taxation.
It will be interesting to see what happens ,and a part of me hates to say this ,when all the EU law and regulations ,taxes etc become on policy ?
The irony could be tobacco taxation at European levels.

Baz said...

There seems to be a lot of confusion, Leg-iron.. because I've never raised any other issue on this thread to do with smoking... so can you all put your knives away.. I only asked if it was worth going abroad to buy fags!

I never said anything about children, or SHS, and I haven't treated you or smokers like another species, i haven't said i hated smokers, karoke bars? what? when did i say anything about that? never.. now.. when did I say anything about smoking scaring people? never? am I reading a different thread to the rest of you... This is an article about going abroad for fags, not constructing a smokers bus stop!! There is no reason to be taking that attitude with me! I have been perfectly respectful to everyone and asked a completely genuine question.

Lysistrata.. good for you for finding away around the tax man.. I dare say if i was a smoker I'd do the same. I can't blame you for that.. what you are doing is perfectly legal.. good on ya.

Anonymous said...

The only reason the UK Tax on Tobacco Products is so high is because of LOBBYING by the Anti-Smoking Organisations.

Reduce the tax to below the rates on Mainland Europe and the "Ciggy Cruises" situation would be reversed and the UK would benefit from the increased numbers flocking to the UK to buy cigs and tobacco.

Baz said...

Anon.. if it's more profitable for you to go abroad to buy your fags, then why are you bothered about the UK tax situation? or what the "lobbists" alledgedly do.. surely you're on a winner, why complain?

Anonymous said...


I don't go abroad because I can't afford it. Why should the ordinary smoker in the UK suffer because of increased tax on tobacco caused by
Anti-Smoking Lobbyists.

Reduce the tax to below the rates on Mainland Europe and the "Ciggy Cruises" situation would be reversed and the UK would benefit from the increased numbers flocking to the UK to buy cigs and tobacco.

I have no wish to continue this conversation as I have better things to do viz:-


Baz said...

Anon, I don't go abroad either because I can't afford it..

As for tabacco prices increasing because of anti-smoking lobbists.. I think it's more that the government sees smokers as an easy target, like they do with alcohol and petrol.

" The only reason the UK Tax on Tobacco Products is so high is because of LOBBYING by the Anti-Smoking Organisations."

I don't know much about this area. where did you make this discovery? Can you tell me which anti-smoking lobby has forced the government to increase tax on cigs? I wonder is the George Osbourne that easily pursuaded?

Smoking Hot said...

Baz ... l no longer care if it was anti-smoking lobbyists or the Girl Guides or anyone else. All the various governments of the UK want to be in the EU. What sticks in their craw is that they had to accept that we, the citizens, could buy from the EU and save a great deal of money by doing so.

You have no idea of the scale of the harassment and sheer unethical tactics being used by the UKBA to try and stop citizens of this country exercising their rights as member of the EU.

l'll continue to do everything l can to help my fellow citizens. What goes on at our borders amounts to nothing less than robbery through blackmail, intimidation and corruption. They are a law unto themselves and it makes me ashamed of my own country.

Some of us won't stand for it though because we believe in a free and just society. Some of us even have clubs that still have smoking but the officials come nowhere near because we too can use their tactics. There is no reasoning wih the anti-smoking fascists, no debate, nothing. Everything is comment moderated, deleted or ignored because they have no inclination to defend their position other than 'preaching to the peasants'.

We have become the outlaws of the society they want but guess what Baz? l and many others now wear this badge with pride.

No surrender ... period!

Baz said...

Ah.. So it's just assumption and myth that it's the anti-smoking lobbyists which have forced an increase in the price of fags.

Having never been abroad I cannot comment on the UKBA. However, I do find it very interesting. Are a lot of people doing these cigarette cruises do you think? Just wondering how many people get through the border controls with their bounty and how many people have their stuff confiscated? what the % is..? have you more chance of coming back WITH or WITHOUT your haul?

"There is no reasoning wih the anti-smoking fascists, no debate, nothing. Everything is comment moderated, deleted or ignored because they have no inclination to defend their position other than 'preaching to the peasants'."

Ummm.. so the scientist who just told everyone that there was no evidence for SHS.. was he moderated, deleted or ignored!? Why don't they defend themselves if their position is so strong? that makes no sense.. if smoking was completely harmless, for arguements sake, and you had loads of scientists saying so, then surely the upshot would be of benefit to the government to lower age restrictions, to remove the smoking ban, to advertise it as with any other legal product, because they could make so much MORE money from it. It's not within their interests to Ban a product that they are making millions of pounds a year from? is it? that's bizarre.. why would the government try to stop a revenue stream like that?

Smoking Hot said...

Whats with this 'bounty' 'haul'? lt's legitimate shopping Baz. Do you shop at Asda and bring your bounty home? l've no idea about percentages nor care. All that concerns me is citizens of this country are being robbed and harassed by the state.

No longer care about arguing about the politics of no-smoking ban. You've covered and argued this many many times.

The UKBA are another matter. They are a corrupt state oganisation that has no place in a free society. They don't use justice or facts to rob people ... that's too difficult so they just do it on a belief or whim and hide behind a veil of secrecy. Can't abide them.

Baz said...

Actually Smoking Hot.. when I go to asda.. I often say "I'm off to raid asda or I'm going to forrage for some food" Excuse me for having a sense of humour!..

I wasn't asking you about the politics of the smoking ban. I was only laying out some common sense questions which of course are ignored when it suits.

I neither care for rumours and hearsay, prefer some hard cold facts none of which have been produced.. The border controls are there for a reason.

Smoking Hot said...

Baz .. Border controls are there for a reason? ... very enlightning. :)

Not interested in the slightest about your questions. Nothing personal.

Lysistrata said...

wow, didn't think I'd ever reply to you. Been away a few days. Not even sure why you're posting on these pro-choice blogs. But, if you want straight info, I'll give it. If you want to "bait" me, I'll remain silent. That's MY rule.

I'm not dodging the tax laws. I found myself living in two eu countries. I love them both, greece is fantastic but so is the uk. I miss autumn in the uk - the smell of woodsmoke and the misty moisty mornings and that particular light across the fields that will be happening just now that signifies the beginning of the end of summer. Smoking has nothing to do with that!

But of course, I'm going to take advantage of the fact that clothes and household linens and some spices in greece are ridiculously expensive, and therefore when I'm in the uk I buy (tax paid) and bring those things in. And equally, I will buy tobacco and ouzo in greece(tax paid) and bring those things to the uk.

Unlike many of my fellow posters, I am actually pro EU, if for no other reasons than it's made life a lot easier to work and travel, and it's probably (personal opinion) prevented a number of wars and senseless waste of young men's lives. Don't want to argue this, just a personal opinion.

How old are you? It matters to me a little - my daughter is 38 and my son is 25. Just so I can "place" you. I am 62. We all have different experiences.

Oh, and I am a smoker. I'm a litle tired of having to stand in the street in the uk. I'm a bit old for that. It's cold. Or wet. And I used to like meeting my friends in the village pub, and we used to sort all sorts of local and family problems out there, but all we pensioners have to stand outside now. Along with the young uns, smokers and non-smokers, who find that the best conversations are outside. Hey-ho.
But, thanks for your acknowledgment. Appreciated. Honestly.

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