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Thursday, 19 August 2010

Ciggy Bustin' B*stards

In an amazing video released today on facebook by our very own TBY, Medway students, 6th formers actually, are taking part in a project aimed at reducing smokers.......to quivering wrecks!



The students don't think that present day advertising is working as far as cessation is concerned so they have devised this rather frightening, brutal approach to 'force people to quit'. "The final idea was to go out and literally ambush smokers and take their cigarettes off them. The adverts don't works so we are going to make you stop smoking."

Now let's hold up here a minute folks and dissect this load of garbage:-

a...The students don't think.....correct

b...that present day advertising is working....and who are THEY to configure such when ASH, CRUK & Governments say they are (even though they want more & more!)

c...The final idea.....you mean there were even more ideas from this loonytoon bunch? God help us!

d...and literally ambush smokers.....ambush (dict'y)concealment of assailants to make a surprise attack, to attack from. Premeditated forms of assault-illegal !

e...and take their cigarettes off them.....gaining another's property through illegal means-theft; pure & simple.

f...so we are going to make you stop smoking.....err, pardon me! is this the first formation of policy doers, to be known as the Chatham Gestapo? To force someone do do something against their will also happens to be illegal !



Margherita Gramegna, artist in residence at the school, said "But we researched it properly and planned it in such a way that we covered all possibilities. So is this stupid woman telling us that it is suddenly outside the law to ambush innocent people going about their lawful business on our High streets because it concerns smoking? Is this obviously non English named woman is totally unaware of English law?



I am absolutely amazed that the British public, smokers vilified from every angle, have put up with this sort of treatment. I for one would NOT. Dancing round me chanting "Ciggy Busters, Ciggy Busters" like demented 6 year olds would send me well over the top. After enquiring (politely) if they were raving mad I would simply 999 and state I was being attacked by a mob on the high street. So long as I didn't say i was a smoker I'm sure our noble Plod would be there within minutes. But I am of a placid nature-fortunately for them!

My mate, who has a temperament somewhat akin to a permanently raging bull (since July 1st, 2007) would not bother with such pleasantries. Barry would simply bellow "fuck off", eyeball to eyeball and if no movement within 3 seconds, plant them on the spot-probably 2 0r 3 before they knew what was happening! After all, legally, he would be protecting his property-his cigarette that he bought and paid for. Now what would the local Plod think of that?

This is one of the most ludicrous, 'bear-baiting' ideas I've ever had the displeasure to come across. It is like advertising 'OPEN SEASON' on smokers. It is despicable, it is immoral, but it is newsworthy of the gutter press!

Watch, and be impressed, you anti smokers, as your proteges strut their stuff!





Anyone fancy a trip to Chatham for a bit of fun? It's called

"CIGGY BUSTER BASHING"




88 comments:

Smoking Hot said...

Final ideas? ... more like Final Solution.

I am Stan said...

Well if one of those righteous cunts assaulted and robbed me in the street I would make a citizens arrest and insist they were charged with theft and assault,even if during my citizens arrest I had to punch one of em in the bollocks very hard.

Nazi Hunter said...

Anti-Smoking Hitler Youth(ASHy).

You will end up like your predecessors.

The Talking Clock said...

I've actually mailed my MP about it and asked if they feel that they are part responsible, given their anti-smoking fascist record in Parliament....

budgie said...

Lot of fat kids on that video....

Mission accomplished guys! Lets celebrate...How bout a big Mac. Make mine large.....

handymanphil said...

I Have complained in the strongest terms to the idiot school backing this action and also to the Medway Messenger. I see one cannot comment on their article!
Most interestingly Medway Plod are totally unaware of these events and refuse to do anything about it until "a victim" comes forward and makes an official complaint! The ploddess did ask me why it was discriminantion against smokers-so i told her they weren't eating fish 'n chips! For God's sake!
I also ased what would happen if an ambushed smoker had a heart attack and died, what would they do because the deceased would not be able to make a complaint? Apparently "we would look into it"-what? the coffin?
Anyone in Chatham???

Dick Puddlecote said...

Phil: "Medway Plod are totally unaware of these events"

Not according to This is Kent.

"Kent police in Medway were made aware of the planned filming, prior to the event taking place."

Man with Many Chins said...

I am afraid if one of these cunts tried that on me, they would be walking away with a fat fucking lip or two.

handymanphil said...

DP: "Kent police in Medway were made aware of the planned filming, prior to the event taking place."
Thanks for that bit of info Dick. Now does that infer that Kent plod agree with intimidating smokers, agree with discrimination, agree with theft, agree with ambush tactics on normal citizens, agree to mob elements rampaging our streets and agree with incitement?
Do you know, I think I will ask the question directly! This could be fun.

TheBigYin said...

Can anyone see the parallels between this eposode and happy slapping? What would you do if your grandad, or dad, a war vet, was stood outside having a ciggy, as he is forced to do, and youths came up to him, slapped the ciggy out of his mouth then punched him in the face as they ran off laughing? Days later they put their 'bit of fun' on the internet to gloat over...then they find out that that 70 odd year old died of his injuries!

Why, oh why, are people pandering to the lowest common denominator of our society with apparent government approval? All because of their Nazi fanatism...take note Baz.

Most times people do NOT take notice of history repeating itself...It's time to sit up and take notice children, your time has come, again!

handymanphil said...

Raising the stakes:
I have now sent this official complaint to Medway Plod!

Dear Sirs,

On this day, Thursday 19/08/2010, I wish to bring formal charges against one Margherita Gramegna, media artist of The Hundred of Hoo Comprehensive School, Rochester, Kent & the organisation known as "A Better Medway", these disgraceful antics, having come to light on U-TUBE (Ref)
http://www.thisiskent.co.uk/news/Students-bust-smokers-action-packed-movie/article-2489342-detail/article.html
clearly show incitement to commit a number of crimes, those being:-
ambushing innocent people
theft of peoples property
intimidation
vigilante style raids on person/s
discrimination against a minority faction
inciting hatred toward smokers

What I find even more unbelievable is that this was going on with the approval of Kent Police, after being assured this morning by that very body (telephone) that kent Police were totally unaware of such proceedings! Ref:- "Kent police in Medway were made aware of the planned filming, prior to the event taking place.
ref: http://www.thisiskent.co.uk/news/Students-bust-smokers-action-packed-movie/article-2489342-detail/article.html

Support also came from "A Better Medway" – a joint initiative between the council and NHS Medway that encourages healthy living – which part-funded the project, paying for filming equipment. Does encouraging healthy living include harassment, intimidation and possibly giving some one a heart attack as a vigilante anti smoker swoops from where-ever to commit robbery?

Sixth form students at The Hundred of Hoo School filmed an anti-smoking movie with their mentor, media artist Margherita Gramegna, in which they mobbed unsuspecting smokers and nabbed their cigarettes. Yes, initially they used 'plants', but, "....and at the end we tried with some other people and they were very happy."
Pray tell, had a smoker clouted one of these irresponsible illegal street thugs for attempting to steal his/her cigarette, would you arrest the smoker or the vigilante?

This is a remarkable and quite disgraceful story. Law-abiding people in Kent are being robbed on the street, with the tacit approval of the local constabulary. The mob action is part of an ongoing scheme from the school and is going to continue in September.

Therefore I re-iterate my request for formal charges to be brought aginst both parties on the above stated grounds and I look forward to your reply with interest.
Yours sincerely

Phil Johnson (a very concerned citizen)
37,Windley Road,
Leicester.
LE2 6QX
T: 0116-2997760...M: 07773-926818

budgie said...

And here...

'gutsy students' as described by The Medway Messenger.

http://www.kentonline.co.uk/medway_messenger/news/2010/august/2/ciggy_busters.aspx

The “Ciggy Busters” will be continuing their project on high streets around Medway in September.

Anonymous said...

The freaks will just say its just a bit of fun, a bit like the
frivolity the SA and HJ had
kicking a few Jews around in the Third Reich. Head butt a Gypsy,
give a gay a severe slapping,
a nice knuckling for anyone who
does'nt do what we tell them.
Yep lets have one gigantic,mega
hatefest.Bring it on ,plenty of
tasty intimidation,throw in some
quality prejudice,dollops of
bigotry,isolation and segregation.

My dear zealots ,the clock is ticking,you want some reality,
watch your back.


No Rules OK

Baz said...

“We didn’t start directly with the general public because we were scared of their reaction, so we planted some people to demonstrate with first.

“After that, people actually participated quite nicely and let us ambush them.

“They were actually saying that this was a very funny and interesting approach.”

Anonymous said...

They always take this course of events.

First they ban it indoors. Then they take away all the ashtrays outdoors. Then they claim there are cig butts on the ground but ignore the fact there are no ashtrays. Then they ban it outdoors.

Then they write up claims in the papers that are happy to print things along the lines that one "has the right" to physically attack smokers and "no court in the land would dare convict me", is how it was played out in San Francisco, CA, USA, several years ago, campaigned by an attorney expert in the law.

After that point, then on the streets people have been seen to scream, yell at and physically threaten someone who is smoking a cigarette and everyone just stands there and looks like it's just another normal event in the course of things throughout the day.

Everyone becomes intolerant of nature and accepting of what in former days was the early tactics of national socialist youth, which then morphed into attacking others brought into the net of not being materially/physically good enough to meet the demands of the ever powerful state apparatus of willing volunteers in obeyance to the devil.

The parents and governments of today are tacitly and willingly endorsing this behaviour and will lead to the complete dissolution of traditional freedoms and liberties from the oppression of tyranny that took millenia to accomplish, all wiped out in the course of a single generation - and with woe to their own children and grandchildren who will become the new Nazis in the current age.

Only if people continue to not fight back against this outrage will the growth of national socialist tyranny only get worse before or if ever it gets better.

Last time it took a world war with physical annhilation of the evil people required by the good just wishing to lead decent lives without interferences.

Any parent or false government official today who endorses this kind of activity among their own and others' children are putting these children at risk of being exterminated come the next world war, which this type of activity will surely lead society down the path of taking, out of necessity for survival, the same as happened leading to the last world war.

People, the devils, who support anti-smoking can go f*ck themselves - because when tic comes to tac and the battle-lines are drawn, I will personally be on the side of the ones who have to exterminate the evil doers and fascist promoters and political stooges being duped into bringing totalitarianism into our daily lives, with this latest threat a splendid example, which is but a warning of things yet to come.

Woe be to that generation, is correct. Law of spirit and truth will always prevail in the long run, but the long run unfortunately usually means a world war and defeat of the evil amongst us, physically, brutally, and by use of the gun, no different than the last world war - and EU and UN and what is happening over in America is just a world primed and ready for such an event to begin, prohibition just the foreplay, the same today as it was in the 1920's and 1930's, history repeating itself, as plain as day for anyone with eyes to see and ears to hear the reality of these events and what they portend.

Dick Puddlecote said...

Baz: “They were actually saying that this was a very funny and interesting approach.”

Really?

We only have two quotes to go by:

One shopper, Dan, a smoker, said: "If it happened to me I would probably slap them.

"I know the damage it is doing but at the end of the day, it is my own choice."

Keith Youngson, a 67-year-old lung cancer sufferer and non-smoker from Chatham, was clear about how he would have reacted if he was a Ciggy Buster victim.

"I would have been in the nick," said the retired contracts manager.


Juvenile debating class didn't teach you to pick your battles, did it? This really is rather indefensible in this day and age.

Teaching kids mugging, even in a good cause, isn't really a good idea, is it?

Dick Puddlecote said...

Looks like even the guy who posted the video isn't very proud of his work. It's been removed.

Baz said...

Yep.. and you quote two people who were not directly involved, who didn't have their cigarettes snatched, because they were not part of it.

I might not agree with a certain protest, i'm still entitled to voice a view on it, however my view is slightly more important if I am actually involved!..

Baz said...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tddiImqpB1M

Although I'm sure this 16 year old will bow to the pressure of youtube/google if enough people complain.

Anonymous said...

It is a sad day when ones words are validated by the behaviour of children, worse still when they are deliberately encouraged by an adult with the resposibility to educate them.

In On Antis and Principles I made a direct comparison of the Health Act to the Nuremburg decrees, that anti smokers (not the tolerent non smokers)are comparable to Nazis.

QED. Those who offer violence to, or encourage or support violence to minority groups are Nazis, the adults who support them, the organisations that promote such strategies are Nazi, be they government, media, teachers or private individuals they are Nazi.

They know they are wrong, they removed the evidence they proudly posted on Utube yet they intend to continue their private vendetta, a real credit to their school and their peers, it is to be hoped that decent silent majority of children and their teachers, that the board of governers of the School concerned will condemn this behaviour in the strongest possible terms, preferably by dismissing the teacher involved and excluding those pupils before some smoker files a lawsuit or criminal prosecution against them.

John Watson.

TheBigYin said...

John, with all my might I am trying not to draw comparisons with the health zealots and Nazis but I'm forever drawn to the Hitler youth of years gone by and the modern media/governments use of propaganda to insight hatred and abuse, bordering on murder acceptance for certain 'groups.'

Any sane person can see what is happening, surely?

Dick Puddlecote said...

"Although I'm sure this 16 year old will bow to the pressure of youtube/google if enough people complain."

Ask yourself who started the bullying, Baz.

Maybe a valuable lesson in life for the arrogant wee scamps, eh? ;)

Dick Puddlecote said...

Oh, ain't this a joy?

The school concerned has also, according to OFSTED, been making videos about the evils of bullying.

What does Littlejohn say? ;)

Anonymous said...

Any sane person can see what is happening, surely?

I think TBY that unless a person has been living on Alpha Centauri for the last 30 yuears and have not seen the millions of words written on the alledged perils of smoking then they already know the script chapter and verse, this does not stop the anti's, repeating their fare ad nauseum as if no one knows!

Their system works well for them, it works just as well against them, so if they choose to use violence as a tool then the comparison is fully justified for it is exactly what was done to all minority groups under the Third Reich, it is historical fact which appears to have been forgotten, when the word filters down and it will, just how proud will the families be of those who are employed by organisations who follow this mantra be of of them?

They made this personal against smokers, I merely do so in return without encouraging violence against them!

John.

Anonymous said...

In their world clearly harassment and assault appear to be perfectly acceptable forms of behaviour. Those kids and that teacher should fined and or locked up.

TheBigYin said...

John, in my spare time tonight I'm writing a piece about this whole sorry business and how I came to F2C in the face of the ludicrous smoking ban.

Before the smoking ban I was blissfully unaware of such hatred towards me and my smoking. Since the ban they have came out of their dark recesses, bolstered by their allies at the extreme end of the anti smoking lobby.

I never purposly puffed smoke in anyones face, I've always been respectful of people who may not wish to smell my smoke and for my troubles what do I get? Pure venom now!

Well I'm not going to stand for it! I'll fight all the Baz's of this world till the day I die, smoking related or no.

They don't want tollerance, they don't want to see your point of view, they don't want to be respectful, they smell blood and I, for one will not give them that chance, I will not be wounded!

The fight has many faces, and so does the enemy. We have to confront those faces and fight them.

I, for one, will not surrender.

budgie said...

John, the Nazi analogy is indeed becoming increasingly valid.

At first, the Nazis hated the Jewish ethos. Ultimately, simply being a Jew was enough. The vast majority chose not to stop it - it suited them not to.

Baz said...

Yawn! wish people would stop bringing me into it.. I haven't said anything for or against this particular thread.

Anonymous said...

If one of these snotbags approached me they would be peeing through a catheter and eating through a straw for a very long time.

Baz said...

Yeah.. I can well believe that Anon... On their youtube page someone has posted "Facist cunts. Hope someone punches you in the bastarding face. "

I think if smokers like the ones on here, want the moral high grond, the last thing they should be advocating is violence. Maybe offering to mentor/educate/debate with these teenagers is a better approach.

Remember they are teenagers.. I'm sure Anon will get a big manly thrill out of hitting a teenage girl or boy, but it isn't going to help anyone is it?

Anonymous said...

3 new discussion topics on their Facebook group (“Ciggy Busters”) a few moments ago:

"The Bad Art Busters are a group of pensioners who are taking a physical act against grant-aided bad artists. At locations that will only be revealed at the time of filming unsuspecting artists will be swarmed by a group of smoking pensioners and have their crayons and cameras confiscated from their hands...Common decency doesn’t work so we have decided to take action..thank you for your support :))"

"The Fat Busters are a group of students who are taking a physical act against obesity. At locations that will only be revealed at the time of filming unsuspecting eaters will be swarmed by a group of students and have their food confiscated from their hands...The adverts dont work so we have decided to take action..thank you for your support :))"

"The Alcohol Busters are a group of students who are taking a physical act against drinking alcohol. At locations that will only be revealed at the time of filming unsuspecting drinkers will be swarmed by a group of students and have their drinks confiscated from their hands...The adverts dont work so we have decided to take action..thank you for your support :))"

Anonymous said...

I shall look forward to It TBY.

Budgie I am very much afraid that you are right, historically that is what happened with the German people, the overwhelming number of Germans were not party members, they did however quietly go along with the policies and by the time they realised what had happened it was far too late to stop.

"Remember they are teenagers.. I'm sure Anon will get a big manly thrill out of hitting a teenage girl or boy, but it isn't going to help anyone is it?"

Yes they are teenagers, teenagers being led and conducted by adults some of whom are responsible for their education, is that the message you would like your children to be taught, that if you do not like someone's lifestyle it is morally correct to break the law or use violence against them?

That is what the Hitler youth were taught both in School and by example.

Baz said "I think if smokers like the ones on here, want the moral high grond, the last thing they should be advocating is violence."

That statement claims every smoker who has posted here advocates violence, it is an absolute lie,

I said categorically "They made this personal against smokers, I merely do so in return without encouraging violence against them!" note the key word in there is "without".

It is little wonder that your posts are met with hostility when you make comments that belie a statement already in print which contradicts your point!

While I fully recognise and accept the right to freedom of speech or expression I would strongly recommend that you ensure that your brain is in gear before you engage your mouth.

John.

budgie said...

So, if people are encouraged by a public funded and sanctioned body to to mug smokers in the street and others subsequently complain about this or even claim the right to defend themselves/property they are accused of taking the moral high ground?

What should they do, lie back and say nothing, thus passively accepting theft and assault by prejudiced and naive teenagers? It's not as though there's a dearth of this already.

TheBigYin said...

And what do you know, they even have a presence on Facebook! And they don't stop at smoking, see also Alcohol Busters and Fat Busters...I kid you not.

So be careful Medway residents, that pint and a big mac your having for lunch may be snatched from you unhealthy mitts.

TheBigYin said...

BTW the link to the facebook page of Ciggy Busters came from a Mr. Bucko, (Fuel Injected Moose,) who has a great blog, so go read his musings, you wont be disappointed.

Anonymous said...

"For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction."

"For the Anti-Nazi youth movements- the working class Edelweiss Pirates and the bourgeois Hamburg Swing Youth alike - the constant cigarette seems to have been almost a badge of resistance and was referred to as a sure indicator of their degeneracy in the surveillance reports produced by the Hitler Youth."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2548770/pdf/bmj00579-0060a.pdf

Teenage rebels who fought Nazis are honoured at last
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/1492771/Teenage-rebels-who-fought-Nazis-are-honoured-at-last.html

1939-1945: The Edelweiss Pirates
http://libcom.org/history/articles/edelweiss-pirates

Perhaps Deborah knows her history.

Don't hate the smoker
"If smokers are marginalised in our society there is a danger that they will begin to see their habit as a badge of honour."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2007/jan/08/post877

Anonymous said...

@The Big Yin
Erm, it was I who posted the info about the Facebook Page last night, to some key people at F2C and a handful of bloggers and asking them to circulate.

And, er, it was I who put up the three SPOOF discussion posts up on fat, alcohol, and bad artist busters.

For now I will remain anonymous, but I don't want you to make a fool of yourself by ranting about their idiocy.

Lol it was a JOKE! ;)

TheBigYin said...

I stand corrected anon but please, Don't Laught at Me, because I'm a clown.

And yes, I'm only joking, I'm not really a clown. ROFL.

handymanphil said...

email response from Kent Plod:-
Dear Mr Johnson

Thank you for your email which has been logged under reference number 5598/2010 and forwarded to Medway Police for a response.

Regards



Enquiries Support
Chief Constable's Executive Support Office
Force Headquarters
Sutton Road
Maidstone
ME15 9BZ

'Protecting and Serving the people of Kent'
P please don't print this e-mail unless you really need to.

Baz said...

John, let's look again at the replies from posters on here.

I Am Stan: calls them righteous cunts! and talks about how he'd like to punch one in the bollocks..

Man with Many Chins: calls them cunts and threatens to give them fat fucking lips.

When I said..

"I think if smokers like the ONES on here, want the moral high grond, the last thing they should be advocating is violence. Maybe offering to mentor/educate/debate with these teenagers is a better approach."

I was refering to these! Sorry for generalising, I thought it was obvious and only the truly pedantic would not realise.

These kids are nothing like the Nazi Youth. For a start the Nazi's youth smoked! opps generalisation again. Nazi's Youth members were known to have smoked, since they were partly paid in cigarettes. They were mostly housed away from their parents. The HY comprised of only BOYS, Not girls and boys. The HY was compulsory. If you want to compare anything to the HY then some form of army training, or scouts or boys brigade (which is actually how the HY started), but no I wouldn't say a bunch of mixed 6th formers doing an art course where like the HY.

John I care not if my posts are met with hostility.

Baz said...

handymanphil.. have the school issued a statement?

handymanphil said...

No Baz, the school have not issued a statement and after whatn I sent THEM, yesterday I think they will take legal opinion before issuing anything!
For your information Baz some of these students smoked but obviously thought plaguing smokers would be hilarious.
You cannot complain about some of the hostile comments on here Baz simply because this war on tobacco is reaching far into peoples lives-hostility is bound to come. You can only bait a bear so much!

gruppenfuhrer maggie said...

You vill not stop me. Smokers are vile and smell. They vill not be tolerated!

Smoking Hot said...

Baz ... a percentage of these kids will smoke too.

Margherita ... gruppenfuhrer maggie.

Someones got a sense of humour ... love it! :)

Bucko said...

Anon 10:25. You did supply the info about FB and I credited you with it when I posted it on my blog.

I was not aware you were behind the fat busters ect. I am gonna have to get on FB when I get home (cant at work) and check that out. Sounds funny as f....

Baz said...

Phil and SH.. I realise that some of these kids will be smokers or even ex-smokers. I never said otherwise.

I just think it's ironic that SOME people (not generalising) on this forum, and indeed on their youtube blog, are advocating violence.

Has anyone here contacted the school, and offered to debate the issues raised from the video? i.e. the supposed attacks on people smoking, has anyone offered a positive solution? No

again most people here have

a. talked about Nazi's and Hitler Youth, or made some joke about that.. most people here condem the Nazi movement, and Hitlers non-smoking policy, however first opportunity they get they make light of it.. "gruppenfuhrer maggie." for example, they take. Debasing the whole precedent they are wishing to establish.. either you take your points seriously or you don't!! you can't expect others to sit up and listen if you are then calling people Nazi's and Hitler and shouting Furher! in a very "nazi way"

b. talked about contacting the police and authorities because of the "outrage" they feel, even though they themselves were not directly involved and everyone who was involved was quite happy to be involved, no one actually complained. Those that did complain were not involved in the films production. The police were already aware of the film and warned residents about it beforehand.

c. talked about contacting to school to complain... but not to re-educated. If you want to do something positive to change perception, instead of shouting "Nazi" why not get in touch with the school and set up a debate or a dialogue about the problems facing smokers.

Everything is so negative.. if you want to change peoples perceptions, it's no good shouting Nazi at them.. you have to engage them.. hell.. why don't someone on here make a similar video where you go round confiscating kids mobile phones or MP3 players with an underlying message about lack of face to face communication on modern society.

It's far easier to attack than it is to come up with a creative solution to an issue. 'bout time everyone here, who I'm sure are extremely clever (judging by all your references to history, law, liberty, etc) engaged with the problem instead of the opposite.

Smoking Hot said...

Baz ... mmmmmm shall l debate with you or set off for the Bikers Fest where there's rock, smokes, women, alcohol and no righteous?

errrr See ya! :)

Anonymous said...

Maybe if the school taught the children what it's supposed to be teaching them, they would be able to spell words such as swarmed, revealed and cigarette. I would mention apostrophes but I don't suppose even the teachers know where they go!!

handymanphil said...

Baz:- " and everyone who was involved was quite happy to be involved, no one actually complained. Those that did complain were not involved in the films production."
So, as objectors were left out Baz, you are saying that it is Ok to run around making films taking the piss out of smokers?
By including 'objectors', do you think they thought 'perhaps not-might get fat lip'?

Baz:- " talked about contacting to school to complain... but not to re-educated."
I will happily go to the school to re-educate, but do you seriously think they are going let me, a smoker, tell the kids the truth of anti smoking zealots like ASH, CRUK, Banzhaf et al. Do you think, after spending £millions they are going to let me 'unbrainwash the already brainwashed'-I don't think so!
Do you want me to educate them in matters of bent politics/science (ie the SCOTH report) because I'll bet you THEY don't want me to!
But yes Baz, I have written to the school as it happens and I welcome open debate with them. If it merits such I will travel to Chatham/Rochester and educate the brainwashed-happy now Baz?

Baz:- "Everything is so negative.. if you want to change peoples perceptions, it's no good shouting Nazi at them.. "
What is more negative than a rowdy bunch of teenagers, supposedly under the supervision of a 'responsible' adult charging all over a shopping centre sqwaking...'ciggy busters, ciggy busters'? Can you, in all honesty, point out one single positive in that?
The references on facebook to other groups that could become targets happens to be very relevant indeed for that could soon happen-but would the police have allowed any of it to happen if these idiots had been running around yelling "gay busters-faggot busters? I don't think so Baz. You tell me the difference!

Anonymous said...

@Bucko

Yes you did credit me, many thanks.

To be honest I had no idea where and who I'd posted in the wee small hours, so no idea where to check up.

Took me ages and much site trawling to work out Bucko = Fuel Injected Moose. Probably.

Speed of communication was of the essence though.

I am not really Anon. The Big Yin knows who I am now.

Cheers. Have a good evening when you eventually get there.

budgie said...

Baz

Where have you been for the last couple of decades? Anti smokers only engage in meaningful discourse with other anti smokers. Then they try to ram the outcome down everyone else's throats.

Just like the Nazis

Baz said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Baz said...

haha smokers hot.. good for you.. get out to that fest.. don't blame ya..

"So, as objectors were left out Baz, you are saying that it is Ok to run around making films taking the piss out of smokers?" - hmm.. well it depends if you think they were "taking the piss" or if they were making a film about the media representation of anti-smoking propaganda? since it was a media studies project after all.

They have said very clearly that they realised people might not go for the idea so planted some people in the crowds, got the police to give warnings and interviewed those involved afterwards who gave positive views!..

As for going into the schools, Phil, there is nothing wrong with going in and giving the other side to the story, long as you are CRB checked and you meet up to discuss before hand with the tutor. What is the problem? it's only your paranoia that says you're ideas will not be wanted or accepted. If you collected propaganda posters and asked the students to say how they feel about them, or involved them on a debate about liberty and choice.. then where is the harm!? or are you scared that they might overwhelm you with their intellect!? or knowledge? or maybe give you answers you don't like? The teacher herself is a visiting and resident artist.

I think what's more negative than some teenagers making a film about anti-smoking is maybe smokers shouting Nazi's at those teenagers. When they should be setting an example and maybe realising that these are children exploring media, in a pre-defined situation.

Other relevant groups.. blah.. you haven't got a crystal ball, phil you can't predict the future..

Hope that clears up any difference.

budgie does that mean that smokers only engage in meaningful conversation with other smokers.. in which case, because some of those kids are smokers you should be ok to go into the school and debate it with them :)

handymanphil said...

Baz:- "or are you scared that they might overwhelm you with their intellect!? or knowledge?"
Please do not resort to insulting my intelligence Baz.
Note, if they taught the kids in school these days about the nazi's, Hitler & prejudices then perhaps these kids might have thought twice about marauding around the streets in the name of 'media'.
If it's that brilliant a piece of media why has it been removed from U-Tube?

Twisted Root said...

@ Baz

The time for nice debating points and and calm engagement is long past.

Out of their own mouths, "The Ciggy Busters are a group of students who are taking a physical act against smoking. At locations that will only be revelaed at the time of filming unsuspecting smokers will be swormed (sic) by a group of students and have their cigarrettes (sic) confiscated from their hands".

ref Facebook Page http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=727384335#!/group.php?gid=135367909827483&ref=ts

And just so you don't need to make one of your weasly diatribes to try to excuse criminal behaviour and imply criminality or bad faith about anyone who disagrees with you, let me make it clear - criminality and intolerrant behaviour is the province of the anti-smokers and their various government agency backers. No action I take will be criminal or violent.

Now, as I say, the time for debate is over, run along back to your pointless government job, unless of course that job happens to be making distraction posts and excuses on comment boards.

Anonymous said...

The teacher who suggested and encouraged this stunt should be instantly dismissed.
She is a pernicious and evil influence on impressionable youngsters.
She should not be allowed anywhere near children - think "Miss Jean Brodie"

Sadly, her young impressionable foot soldiers will think this was a great "laugh"
and the experience will stay with them for life. Teaching them what?
That it's okay to go around in a gang attacking someone doing something that you
personally disagree with.

I'm not excusing the youngsters actions, if you are attacked in this way, then punch
their lights out! - However the real fascists here are those 'educating' and organising them.

TheBigYin said...

And 'happy slapping' is used as a bit of fun to todays teenagers...were we ever like this in our youth?

Baz said...

handymanphil, firstly kids in schools do get taught about all the things you've said.

secondly they weren't maraunding, they were performing, and as has been quoted they selected people who were plants and those that were not plants said afterwards they didn't mind in the slightlest.

thirdly I don't know why it's been removed from youtube.. do you? No.. could it be.. and i'm going out on a limb here, that someone at the school thought better of having a page where smokers had written "cunt" and "bastard kick your face in" on it..

Twisted root.. how do you explain the camera, the plants in the audience and the police notification, not to mention the supervision from a qualified adult. The blurb that you have quoted is just that. blurb. it's not a manifesto as was instantly shown in the newspaper article in the main blog, and if you bother to look, in all of the other articles about this subject online.

Twisted root I wish I did have a government job. I could do with a good pension. I like posting here. If you object to my posting here, speak to the person that runs the blog and have me banned. Free speech and all :)

Ahh.. there's another one advocating violence against children.. "punch their lights out" great words of wisdom there Anon.. good for you, for stooping to the levels you accuse others of.

Anonymous said...

The Facebook Group "Ciggy Busters" has been removed. Noticed it 19.03 uk time.

I thought I offered very gentle satirical humour, well within the emotional and intellectual understanding of 6th formers. And no swearing or threats of violence.

Baz, are you still bazzing around? Do go away, there's a good fellow. Nagging people with the same tired arguments doesn't help. Can't you go and find a girlfriend/ boyfriend to occupy your apparently unlimited free time? Or take a good brisk walk.

I am not anon, I am Lysistrata.

Baz said...

Sorry Anon, :) *cough* Lysistrata.. yeah I'm still here So many people use the name "anon" I don't know who's who.

I haven't nagged anyone on here.. So don't know where you get that idea from. I haven't told anyone how to live there lives or indeed to stop smoking. I've only said that I agree with the smoking ban. That's all.

How do you know I haven't already got a b/friend or g/friend or wife/children!?

My time isn't unlimited, I will die one day, I am mortal after all. I'm glad you are interested in my well being, but you have no need to worry, I do take frequent brisk walks.

handymanphil said...

Baz:- " I do take frequent brisk walks"
Oh well Baz you and David Taylor MP have at least one thing in common! He WAS an anti as well !

Twisted Root said...

@ Baz

Predictably, you have not listened at all. The debate is over. It's not me saying that, it is the anit-smokers. Smokers can now be harassed in the street with the blessing of the the police and the financial support of unelected government agencies. And those who carry it out can expect not only to get away with it, but also a pat on the head like a good little pet. No discussion, no debate, smokers are a priori evil.

So you see Baz, you won. Congratulations. Comment where you like and say what you like as long as the blog owner doesn't object. However, there is no need for discussion any more. Do you get it now Baz? You're fighting yesterday's battle. You've got what you want. You have got a group of people onto whom you can project your all of the frustrations of your worthless little life.

Baz said...

Hi Anon. I did listen.

You continually set up the debate in a "them and us" style.

I don't.

I have tried to knock down barriers of "anti-smokers" and "smokers".

I have tried to explain that education is the key, not disinformation,

I have tried to explain that smokers need to put their ideas across without violence to have the upper hand in the debate and all you do is mock me!!

It's not me with the problem..

I'm not fighting any battle. I don't view anything as a fight. Your whole use of language is about violence.. "fight" what fight? nonsense.

You say there has been no discussion, no debate.. yet there are 61 posts on this thread about it. So clearly there has been a debate, the youtube video's and face book pages have both been removed, so clearly someone has heard your opinion. people have written to the school and MP's and Police.. which is positive action. I would say there has been significant movement, significant debate, significant discussion.

TheBigYin said...

the youtube video's and face book pages have both been removed

Not exactly Baz.

Twisted Root said...

There you go. Framing anyone who disagrees with you as violent - as I predicted you would.

And don't think I didn't notice in your comment yesterday at 1:00pm after responding to me you wrote;

'Ahh.. there's another one advocating violence against children.. "punch their lights out" great words of wisdom there Anon.. good for you, for stooping to the levels you accuse others of.'

Not referring to me, but implying it.
You are one slippery customer Baz.

You have an indefensible position on this particular incident Baz. You defend criminality and violence committed against a vilified group. Morally indefensible, but again you can expect a pat on the head from your bosses for doing so. So spare us your piety, your faux resonableness and your strawman arguments and either be graceful in victory or condemn the violence of Ciggy Busters and their backers (remember them, the one's who initiated violence). It shouldn't be too difficult for you given your obsession with finding it in people who disagree. I think you'll just make more excuses.

Baz said...

"I'm not excusing the youngsters actions, if you are attacked in this way, then punch their lights out"

Is what I was refering to when I said about people getting violent Anon.. so sorry to disappoint I was making a valid point.. I wasn't making anything up!

Baz said...

Anon..

You know nothing about me, you don't know who I work for, or my age, or my interests (aside from the beatles and poetry) you don't know my ethnic background, or my marital status, my academic history. you don't know anything.. and yet.. You are the one posting under the name "anon". I have never once attacked you personally. I have never once said anything remoting instulting to you and yet you feel so unable to debate the topic that you make this personal. Sorry I won't go down to that level. If you have something that is relevant to say about the topic I will debate it.. but I will no longer engage in your silly tittle-tattle of heresay and nonsense about who you think I am or work for.

TheBigYin said...

I'm with you all the way baz on your last post. (Somebody take me out and shoot me, NOW!) :0)

Baz said...

haha TBY. I'm chilling now.. The sun has finally come out and I've got Abbey Road on the hifi.. :)

TheBigYin said...

Top man Baz, now all you need is a foaming pint, a fag and a bacon sarny to make your day...sorry, that was below the belt, ouch!

Anonymous said...

The law gives us all the right to defend ourselves, our property, and families with reasonable force.

A group of people charging down at you screaming is an unprovoked attack which warrants reasonable force to defend against.

Such attacks are illegal irrespective of whether they are considered art or not, that the attacks were discussed prior to the event is:
1 a conspiracy,
2 incitement to violence in a public place
3 A teacher not only conspired to commit but actively aided and abetted criminal acts with the knowledge of both the school and the local authorities contrary to the offences against the persons act and the Health and Safety Act (committing acts that place people at risk of injury fall firmly under that act)which should not be condoned by anyone.

Such tactics are used by the military with a view to demoralise and terrify their opposition, there can be no other interpretation to such an act.
This forms part of a deliberate campaign by the anti smoking lobby and its supporters to deny the legal rights of a minority by any and all means possible.

If this type of behaviour is permitted to go on someone will be injured, possibly killed, I have no desire to see this happen and call on all reasonsable people to ensure it does not. If that means giving a child a criminal record to deter the rest then so be it, if that means the dismissal and prosecution of teachers who encourage this then so be it, if that means the schools and or local authorities should be prosecuted in the civil or criminal courts then so be it.

The rights of everyone including smokers must be upheld or rule of law and justice mean nothing.

John Watson

Twisted Root said...

John, don't look to Baz for this. He has consistently turned down opportunities to condemn this action. In Bazworld violence against smokers doesn't count. But hurling accusations of violence a disenters is acceptable.

He thinks he doesn't have bosses because they don't pay him or send him company memos, but he does and thay are very pleased with him.

budgie said...

Baz (8/20 3.38pm)

'budgie does that mean that smokers only engage in meaningful conversation with other smokers..'

Absolutely not (silly question, if you don't mind me saying so).

But you seem to be confusing 'anti smoker' with non smoker and smoker. Believe it or not, many antis are smokers and many non smokers support smokers.

Baz said...

haha TBY.

-- budgie I was only reversing the question you posed to me, and I said on another thread that there must be pro-neutral and anti- smokers as well as pro-neutral and anti- non-smokers. (This is why I don't think it's fair to categorise people like this and even less fair to group people together like it.) I do try my best to not generalise, I admit I do from time to time (like we all do..), however I see people as people, I don't see a smoker and a smoker. nor do I see a fat person as a fat person. I see people.

Twisted Root.. If this had been an actual attack then I would have condemed it.. and when I first saw the video I had a gut reaction against it.. UNTIL I got my head out of the sand and read up on it and realised it was staged and everyone who was in the film reacted positively and the police had been notified before hand. I never accept anything on face value. If this had actually happened I would be the first to say it's wrong.. So in that context.. yes I feel it's wrong to threaten with violence children/film makers/cameramen and actor who have all given their permission and are all law abiding citizens. BTW, violence against anyone is wrong. I don't make an exception for smokers. I do like the way you keep putting words in my mouth.

AS for you paranoid delusions about who's pleased with who, if you have to resort to that in order to justify your position - then your position can't be that strong can it.

-- John.. these were not attacks.. these were students making a film! everyone involved was perfectly happy with taking part. If they were attacks then why would the police turn a blind eye?

I completely agree that if these were REAL attacks then people should be prosecuted for it, and I would be the first to say that it's wrong.

Twisted Root said...

Thanks for that Baz. I now invite you condemn these attacks. Because I have checked with Miss Gramegna about whether the quotes in The Medway Messenger attributed to her were correct and invited to deny them. She has not. Some members of the public were unsuspecting.

Over to you Baz. Are you as good as your word or will we get more dissembling.

Anonymous said...

Baz you said:

"-- John.. these were not attacks.. these were students making a film! everyone involved was perfectly happy with taking part. If they were attacks then why would the police turn a blind eye?"

The teacher who organised it said:

"We planted some people and we started with them. People were watching and following us and at the end we tried with some other people."

Those words alone are sufficient to convict her and the students of incitement to violence, assault and theft. Her meaninng is clear, by going after those following and not the plants she instigated unrestricted assault(s) on bystanders. She has opened up the possible prosecution of herself her students and her school under the Health and Safety Act, if the Headmaster was aware then conspiracy to incite violence apply to him.

The icing on the cake is that by making a senior police officer aware then charges of conspiracy, breaches of the Health and Safety Act seeing as no police officers were present to ensure that the law was not broken as it was the moment a bystander was attacked! Something which she apparently confesses to in her statement to the press.She admitted going after bystanders.

If the oral statement "Let him have it Chris" can get a man executed for murder then the written words of this teacher should get her and those under her control convicted for lesser crimes.

Baz now will you condemn this for the attack it was or will you continue to support violence against minorities?

John.

Baz said...

"Organisers said that far from encountering hacked-off nicotine addicts, the response they received was warm. The victims, they said, were willing participants."

"We planted some people and we started with them. People were watching and following us and at the end we tried with some other people and they were very happy."

"Kent police in Medway were made aware of the planned filming, prior to the event taking place."


-- Taken from This is Kent, website who reported it.

Tell you what John. IF anyone is actually charged with violence against a minority (or any other crime relating to that) then I'll say you were right!

I seriously doutb that will happen, since no one is likely to bring a charge as everyone involved was perfectly happy with what happened.

Anonymous said...

I seriously doutb that will happen, since no one is likely to bring a charge as everyone involved was perfectly happy with what happened.

So ecstatic they pulled the Video from U-tube and removed their face book page, and just wait until until the headmaster finds out what is being said about his school!

He really does not need this kind of publicity.

John.

Baz said...

To be fair John.. We don't know why the video's or their facebook page were pulled. It could have been complaints from people to Google/Youtube, it could have been fear from getting insulted and threatened on their pages and yes.. it could have been pulled before the Head saw it. Since the story broke in the paper, and you have to get permission to take students out of school. I'd be surprised if the Head or one of the senior management team wasn't already aware of it..

Anonymous said...

Their video sounds like something on a par with happy slapping. Very nasty.
Any video production that is very likely to promote assault (by thieving of cigarettes) and or harassment of law abiding members of society is totally shameful. its clearly encouraging hate crime.
The teacher should be sacked.
I feel totally disgusted with the police (clearly a bunch of idiots!) that they never should have agreed and cooperated.

Anonymous said...

So even if we then accept that the video and facebook page was removed to protect the pupils from adverse comment the question has to be asked why was it permitted to place these children at risk to adverse comment in the first place.

If as you suggest the Head or a member of his senior staff were aware of the plan why did they not anticipate such an adverse reaction to it?

Like ships Captains, Headmasters are responsible for every act committed by their pupils and staff, they ultimately are responsible to the board of governers for the School's reputation especially when that schools resources and staff are involved.

I did not know or I was only following orders are not a defence, they were not a defense at Nuremberg, they are not a defence in the mercantile marine or any military force, they are not a defense under the Health Acts, so publicans cannot defend themselves in smoking related cases and they are not a defense for Headmasters either! There are no excuses, no get out clauses just the sole responsibility of the man or woman in command.

Are they all such poor judges of character? If so then none of them should in the teaching profession its their ability to judge character and abilities that decides the future of these children!

No matter what justification is made for permitting this travesty of art the fact reamains that children in loco parentis were put at risk for an idealogical statement, what if someone took it extremely seriously, defended themself and a child was injured?

No doubt the smoker would be blamed, the fact that the smoker will have been likely terrified by an apparent howling mob before being struck and his/her property stolen would be quietly buried because a child was injured.

A truck driver lost his livlihood for vaping, using an e-cig not a tobacco product but was still convicted on the say so of an EHO parked over 80' behind with a tanker between him and the cab for smoking a cigarette! What chance will a smoker have in a court defending himself against a pack of youths encouraged by a teacher? An allegedly responsible role model!

This has to be stopped, the law has to be seen stopping it before what remaining faith in the police and judiciary finally dies.

History shows that every civilised power, every Empire's demise was preceeeded by a breakdown of law and order, Rome, Greece, Persia, Egypt,the Weimar Republic, even the British Empire, Ghandi's largely non violent civil disobedience, passive law breaking, contributed greatly to the break up of the British Empire into a Commonwealth of nations. All of these precedents brought down major world powers.

In one case it spawned the most evil dictatorship the world has ever known, it is said that those who fail to heed the lessons of history are doomed to repeat it.

The precedent of using children to further a political agenda was set less than a century ago, will any of you stand idly by and watch it happen again?

It is clear that the majority posting here and elsewhere will not!


John.

Anonymous said...

For those that seemingly don't understand the ramifications of the "Ciggy busters" the above post explains perfectly why a full report/complaint has been sent to Medway police.
A formal complaint has also been sent to the school and "A better Medway", the anti smoking organisation responsible for part funding this wholly disgraceful discrimination against smokers.

Baz said...

John... maybe nobody realised that people would be putting comments like that on there. since the newspaper article was by and large positive. Also if it was a child that posted it.. they don't live in the same world as an adult, (and you know I don't mean that literally!) their perception of the world and the net are different. To them it's a film online, to you it's an example of fascism..

Although I have to say. It is ironic that some people on pro-choice pro-smoking forums (being careful not to say smokers now) do endlessly talk about the hitler youth and Nazi's and this video draws upon those elements. I wouldn't be surprised if it was delibrately so - to get those that make those comments screaming from the roof tops (and what a surprise.. they have)

Everyone has a different view of art John.. Some people got really upset by the image of Myra Hindley which was made up of smaller pictures of children! I think stuff like that is incredibly thought provoking. This video has definately achieved that aim.

All we can do is speculate and since we don't know anything, every post is making the myth bigger..

Anonymous said...

This whole plan was concieved by an adult not children, an adult I remind you who is responsible for the formation of how children think, an educator, are you telling me it is right, proper, or fitting to teach children to break the law for art let alone political ideology?

If that is inded what you are saying then there is clearly a problem that needs addressing.

Do you not care that this woman put children at risk to prove a political idiology?

Do you really not care that one or more of these children will grow into adulthood believing it is right to break the law to get their own way?

The overiding claim of the anti smoking lobby is the protection of children, the same anti smoking lobby that puts them at physical risk by sending them out to break the law, itself a criminal act. u cannot get around the fact that children were put at risk under the meaning of the Health and Safety act, they could have been assaulted, seriously injured and that is a cause for very serious concern. In the event they were not but were in fact doing the assaulting given that they were sent after bystanders who were not asked if they wished to participate in such a film and that by the admission of hte organiser. No Baz you cannot support the commission of criminal acts and call it art!

That the law has been broken is not a myth, the comparison between the organised attacks on smokers by children and the organised attacks by the Hitler Youth on Jews during Krystalnacht is valid, relevent historical fact and certainly not the myth you would so desparately wish it to be!

Now if you wish to go myth hunting try Dealy Plaza in Houston or Loch Ness in either place you will find plenty to occupy your mind!

The newspaper wants to sell papers nothing more nothing less, they may print a token protest or two in the same way as coloured actors were used in films back in the 1960's but even you have to conceed the view of the public is very diferent both here and on other blogs some of which have no relationship to smoking what so ever.

It's not just smokers who are angry Baz but non smokers who don't care one way or another about the ban but who like me are concerned about the safety of these children which I am sure you will agree is the priority here.

To argue that it is art does not help to save these children from risk of injury by their actions at the behest of an allegedly responsible teacher, only putting an end to it does that and it is in the best interests of those children that this be done.


John.

budgie said...

Have you seen this John?

http://athanasiuscm.blogspot.com/2008/11/nazi-anti-smoking-movement.html

Anonymous said...

Thanks Budgie, I have now! An interesting perspective from an historian on a little covered aspect of the Third Reich.

I thought him to be fair and honest, and particularly even handed on cigarette smoking which he admits he dislikes.

Twisted Root said...

More dissembling then

Anonymous said...

A priceless 'round the houses' reply from Plod:-
Dear Sir,

thank you for contacting us to highlight your concerns regarding the Hundred of Hoo School 'Ciggie Busters' campaign/event.

The school contacted Medway police prior to the event and discussed it with our events manager. We were advised that actors would play the role of the 'smokers' with students approaching them, before taking the cigarette from them and 'advising them' about the health issues.

In addition to this Medway NHS were to also be involved.

We did advise the school that to approach non-actors could cause problems and to our knowledge no non-actors were approached. No one has made any allegations of crime regarding this matter, (in so far as no one who was approached has made any complaints).

The school involved police and other agencies in their planning and I believe took on board all our advice and comments. The filming and actions were part of a project the students were under taking and I am told the cameras were clearly visible to all in attendance. This was a deliberate part of the planning as overt cameras and the use of actors would hopefully prevent the people being approached being offended in any way.

If a person who was not an actor was approached and their property taken etc. we would consider their complaint. However, as no one appears to have been approached in this manner, we shall not at this time be taking this matter further.

I am sorry you feel offended by this incident, but I can assure you that it was meant to be a light hearted educational project, with no harm intended.

Yours faithfully,

Michael Morgan
A/ Det Chief Inspector
Medway Police Station.

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